DDR Freak obtains amended complaint document

[SpeedOverNostalgia]

[Synaesthesia]

Yes, the target scroll synchronization with respect to music is clearly delineated in the patent, heralding from as an original concept from Beatmania. And no, it doesn't just "come down to" using feet. Read El Mullet's article regarding how Konami didn't throw lawsuits at several other dancing simulation games. I imagine Konami could have patented the target-music-sync mechanic from Beatmania (which they may very well have done), because it is unique and may or may not be the first of its kind. DDR certainly created the first unique combination of gameplay mechanics such that they earned a patent for it. Use of feet is important (going back to my previous situation of me making a game with judgment windows, and targets--let's say square in shape--moving towards said window. Let's say the squares scrolled diagonally across the screen, but had the basic "layout" of DDR. However, if I specifically designed my game with the intent of it being played on a handheld controller, there's a good chance it wouldn't infringe on the '835 patent.), but using your feet alone isn't the sole factor. It has to be the combination of factors. I could also make a Mario-like sidescroller, but design it to be used on the dance pad. (You know, have to press L and R in succession to move, U to jump, so forth.) Such a mechanic would likely not infringe on a side-scrolling patent, if any. In fact, I might just get a patent for creating that unique combination of game mechanic and user input.

So, to summarize, Konami could very well have been able to patent the target-music thing (if they didn't already), as it was (AFAIK) the first of its kind to be implemented (on Beatmania). Whether things could have happened differently if certain aspects were different is impertinent; the patent exists, and ITG and MC Whatever-thing are in violation of the patent.
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im a lasagna whale

G_G

[Tsuri]

I'm pretty damn sure music games with "targets" came before Beatmania... could be wrong though... pretty damn sure there was a mini-game in Tales of Phantasia that resembled Guitar Freaks... not entirely sure though... heh (what was that 1994? 95?)

[Synaesthesia]

Not just targets, but a judgment window, wherein you were given increasingly good grades for hitting within more precise windows. Lots of games (not lots, but a plurality) have scrolling targets, even to music, but the judgment window concept is unique AFAIK.
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im a lasagna whale

G_G

[DDRNemesis]

Great job El Mullet. No one could have said it better. I think all the ITG and DDR fanboys should actually read the lawsuit or your review before they say "Konami should die" or "Roxor suxors".
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[Tsuri]

I don't think the judgement window is unique... I'm pretty sure that was done before too... Also games with types of judgement windows didn't get sued by Konami.

[DDRNemesis]

It might have been done before but no one must have patented it before Konami. Just because something comes first doesn't mean they actually patented it.
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[Tsuri]

But my point is if that were the case Konami would have tons more complaints filed since a lot of games use the feature anyway... that or they do not care about the others.... but honestly does Mad Catz even have that much money? I didn't realize so many people were stupid enough to buy their fall apart accessories...

[Edible Bondage Tape]

[kuno]

[xxvxx]

[THE RidGE]

In 1981, Atari had a similar problem with 2 programmers that were building "enhancements" for Pac-Man. This add-on actually hooked into the motherboard of the old Pac-Man and added its code into the old Pac-Man code, so much of the new game used the old game's programming.

[Synaesthesia]

Ridge, the trademark infringement (ITG looking like DDR) specifically refers to ITG's hijacking of DDR cabinets. Konami says that because the DDR cabinet is one-of-a-kind (as it was at the time of the patent, before the Andamiro settlement), the average person (not necessarily a gamer) will recognize it as being DDR, whether they were cognizant of the actual game itself (in terms of exact mechanics, gameplay, etc.). The similarity arises when a hijacked cabinet looks exactly like a DDR cabinet (go figure), and the average person might assume that they are the same game, if a hijacked ITG and a regular DDR machine were placed next to each other, respectively. (Or at least that ITG was a legitimate sequel to DDR, manufactured by Konami).

As for your reference to ITG being slightly different in appearance, that doesn't hold up for the average person as well (which is Konami's point--they don't want people new to the game to mix DDR and ITG up). Everyone on my street who hasn't heard of ITG who has come up to watch me play in the garage watches me play an ITG song (screen visible), and at the end of the song makes some remark about how I play DDR. At which point, I point out that ITG isn't DDR, but it basically is. Your average person who isn't detail-oriented about games might see DDR and ITG, and (correctly) assume there is little to no difference.

Konami's main argument is that they're practically a household name (in the same way a photocopy is a Xerox, a piece of tissue paper is Kleenex, etc.). A lot of people have asked why I don't play on the "other DDR machine at the golf place." I respond with something along the lines of, "Because it's not DDR, it's Pump it Up, and also because diagonal buttons weird me out." So, "that dancing game" is pretty much assumed to be DDR by the general public, which is what Konami is arguing. That said, trademark infringement is not as "solid" as patent infringement--it's likely there just to cover every potential base in the lawsuit.
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im a lasagna whale

G_G

[SpeedOverNostalgia]

[Tsuri]

ITG has a problem that other dance games do not... It has too much remaining "DDR"/Stepmania info left on it...

Anyone notice in the home version on the little intro screen that Solo is displayed as a new play mode? It's not in the game and we know what Solo is.

Also you can, if you have a pen drive stick it in the ITG1 or 2 machine and notice there are unused fields for Solo and Couple modes... which are both from DDR... It's pretty obvious Roxor didn't do much to cover up junk... hahaha

Anyway had they played their cards right they would have approached Konami about it first, then say worked out some deal with them and hired Andamiro to make the game cabinets for them... then this wouldn't have been happening...

[プライアン]

My favorite parts were the "inferior" line and the pictures of the dancers and the 2 up arrows. If Afro and Lady looked like that I would be turning the game on just to get a good laugh once and a while.
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[username1234.123]

ITG IS FINALLY GOING TO DIE!

...or atleast the companies that distribute it.

Happiest.Day.Ever!

[I_Love_DDR]

Why can't we all just get along ? ? ?

[DaveLinger]

[explosivejello]

I think all this will really do is force ITG to make their own cabinet. you gotta admit that's kinda shady on Roxor's part making it a mod like that.
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mreeeeooow?