DDR Freak obtains amended complaint document

[yyr]

I think the amendments to the document are interesting.

They make their case, which focuses mainly on the ITG1 conversion kits for DDR machines. Despite my growing love for ITG, they've definitely got a case there; after all, it's possible that hardware patents have been violated. The only hole in it that I can see is that RoXoR is selling conversion kits, not patented Konami technology. While it is true that these conversion kits depend on a DDR machine to work, it is entirely up to the purchaser to physically convert the machine from DDR to ITG; RoXoR is not directly responsible for the conversion.

This seems eerily similar to the debate over file-sharing services. Obtaining the programs is not in itself illegal; using these programs to obtain illegal material is. Should the distributors of the software be held responsible? That debate isn't all that different from this one, and if anything regarding that debate is resolved in court anytime soon, it may have an impact on a case like this, IMHO.

The amendments to the original document make this a whole new game, though. Mad Catz's game is sold with a controller that could be proven to be an imitation of Konami's arcade machine, and therefore could indirectly violate Konami's hardware patents. Personally I think this is a stretch, though... the patent is VERY specific and names specific pieces and operations all relevant to the original DDR arcade machine. Since the Mad Catz game runs on a Nintendo GameCube and standard TV, and uses a plastic mat controller, it could be different enough that it doesn't fall under the scope of this specific patent.

On the other hand, ITG for PS2 is NOT sold with a controller. I don't have the game box in front of me, but I'm not certain whether the back of the ITG PS2 box even mentions a dance pad. I do know, though, that a dance pad is TECHNICALLY not required to play the game, and that the other equipment consists of a PS2 and standard TV. This means that the chances of RedOctane's patent infringement are less than Mad Catz's.

I'll admit that I'm no lawyer, that I haven't gone through the documents with a fine-toothed comb, and that there's a possibility that everything I just wrote has no relevance to anything. I also don't know whether lawsuits like this are "all-or-nothing" or not--whether they can rule something like "well, RoXoR has to pay for the retrofitting of DDR cabinets, but the others are free to do as they've done." But if this IS an "all-or-nothing" sort of thing, IMHO there's now a possibility that Konami screwed up and will lose this. It probably depends on the wording of the patent and the court's opinion of the patent's scope, but it seems to me that anything can happen now. Before the amendment I figured RoXoR was screwed, but it seems to me that Konami's getting greedy.
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[kamron_1]

[Synaesthesia]

yyr, the point of RO and MC being listed is that they distribute games wherein scrolling targets are used to coordinate your movements. It's not the pads, it's the games themselves; or more specifically, the games infringing upon patented mechanics.

Kamron, Andamiro holds some share of the Konami patent. That's why they are able to continue to produce PIU machines--because they pay royalties to Konami. Roxor's partnership means that Andamiro produces the cabinets because they can, Andamiro gets advertisement of their PIU series, Roxor makes ITG2, Konami gets a fat check from every cabinet sold, and everyone's happy. Don't think that Konami somehow "missed" that.
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im a lasagna whale

G_G

[yyr]

[ColorOfSakura]

While I think that Konami is doing the right thing prosecuting RoXoR for screwing with their already well designed formula, I do think the wording in that text does make Konami look like a bunch of bastards who just shot themselves in the foot.

Case in point, the whole reference to ITG being "poorly designed" and "inferior". Let's not resort to name calling, children.
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[Edible Bondage Tape]

[Synaesthesia]

[AceJay]

Yeah Adobe [anything] doesn't work on my computer.

And nevermind, got it at college.
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[Catastrophe]

On Topic / Off Topic

Namco Cybertainment (the mall arcade and revenue share location company) does seem to actually have all authorized kits. Almost all of their machines were originally 3rd mix Asian versions. Most of them are wicked old, like 1999/2000, but I did see one brand new never-played 3rd mix Asian back in 2003. I thought that was kind of suspicious, because I was expecting a new DDR USA unit with the Extreme JP upgrade.

What I guess happened is that Namco found a way to save money. Instead of buying a DDR USA machine and putting the Extreme upgrade in that, they somehow ordered/found a bunch of Chinese machines. Whatever works, I guess. Their kits were all made without the marqee and stickers, too. By buying only the disc and cart they must've saved seven bucks per machine. (Minus whatever they spent at Kinkos, per machine.) So yeah, big surprise, Namco is cheap. But all of their games should be legit. (And they did get rid of those home version machines as fast as possible. They wouldn't have done that if they liked running counterfeit units.)

[Edible Bondage Tape]

mine had a 3k2 which the downgraded to max 2
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[sherl0k]

I've never been to a Namco arcade that had legit machines, they were all bootlegs.
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[quote:ed1f6848c5=\\\"jaeness\\\"]get your change from obama, he apparently has tons of it.[/quote]

[Wolfman Jake]

[helacious_me_06]

[Synaesthesia]

It's not whether you win or lose... it's how you reach the settlement. Konami gets a nice check for every PIU machine sold, and probably every PS2 game. Because Andamiro pays royalties, they get to keep making their games, essentially owning a share of Konami's patent.
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im a lasagna whale

G_G

[VWarrior]

I'm surprised some of you didn't know that the original In the Groove (litterally in a sense) ripped off DDR, physically. I took one look at an "ITG Cabinet" in a local arcade and I could tell it was bootleg. The Marquee looked cheap and faded out, the cabinet showed evidence of internal tampering, it looked physically worn, and you can just tell it was a DDR cabinet because it had the exact same design with just a different "game" playing on it.

I dunno about you guys but I would be ticked if a company retrofitted one of my products without my permission and made money off of it. Making money off someone else's product without consent is a big NO NO by the law. I really can't see Konami not winning the suit there.

And as someone else brung up, it can be argued that that illegal action is what paved the way for the continuation of the series. Roxor probably didn't have the money to manufacture and distribute arcade cabinets for the original In The Groove, so they used Konami's DDR cabinets for the game. You should also note that they probably knew Konami wouldn't allow it (at least not for free) if they actually asked them, so Roxor went behind their backs and altered their hardware. Thats disgusting and kinda like I said, i'd sue the crap outta Roxor too for doing that. So in doing that, they made money (illegally BTW) which likely provided funds for them to produce more versions of the game and enter agreements to have their own cabinets manufactured for the sequel, which by both function and design, rips off what Konami did....HARD! And then of course, eventually distributing a home version which, like its arcade counterpart, by both function and design, rips off what Konami did....HARD!!

In essence, it can be argued that Roxor games broke the law by infringing on Konami's patent, illegally altering their produce a game that throughly rips off Konami's product and further infringing on their patent to make money for themselves without royalty payments to Konami even though they used Konami's machines to make the money, allowing them to produce more versions of a game that still infringes on the patent to be played on arcade cabinet that infringes with Konami's patent, and then the distribute a home version also rips off Konami's product by, like the arcade products, rip off Konamis's home versions by both function and design.

I really have no sympathy for Roxor games here.

[Syncopation]

[SpeedOverNostalgia]

Ha, no game company will get away with pulling in special rights to "rhythmic games." Just look at Nintendo's Donky Conga (or whatever it is exactly).

Patenting the right to make games in which you use your feet is like patenting the right to make games in which you use your hands (i.e. a PS2 controller). I'll have to cry if any game company seriously tries to copyright something so basic as that.
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"End of Century - Seems like someone just pounded out random keys on the Konami stepfile creating program and thought it would be funny."
-DahrkDaiz, so true

[El Mullet]

GENTLEMEN! LOOK, AND BEHOLD!

I have here MY thoughts on this whole "lawsuit" matter. Be prepared for another one of my patented long reads, though.

Oh, and flame away. I love it when people do that.
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UCTIONS!

[Fire_Adept]

[Synaesthesia]