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Eradicator
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Joined: 09 Dec 2005
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40.  Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 11:29 am Post subject: |
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I don't think so. The two diodes on the positive side of the switch are the ones that are important - you don't want the higher voltage of the lighting power source to flow into the controller.
Assuming you've tied the ground of your lighting circuit to the ground of your controller circuit, the two diodes on that side of the switch are redundant. Since both signals are flowing through the same switch (arrow panel), it's not like they're going to split apart again and take their separate paths back to ground. |
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idConstruct
Trick Member
Joined: 12 Mar 2007
Location: Green Bay, WI |
| 41. Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 12:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | ground is ground is ground. If you plug a 15V power supply into the wall, it's going to be feeding off the same voltage as your PS2 is. And in the end, the current is going to go right back into the same place - the wall. What's more, the black wire on your PlayStation controller is ground - and that ground goes right back into the PS2, where it feeds itself around a whole lot of electronics, but in the end goes... right back into the wall. Connecting both grounds won't hurt a thing. |
Conclusion: You only need two diodes.
You need to put the light circuit on the positive side of the diode though like you said.
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idConstruct
Trick Member
Joined: 12 Mar 2007
Location: Green Bay, WI |
| 42. Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 9:42 am Post subject: |
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| LightningXCE wrote: |
I ordered dual Red and "Superbright Blue" kits, they run on 12v each.
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Question: Were the superbright blue tubes noticeably brighter than the regular reds? I was just wondering because i don't see a superbright red, and I wouldnt want the blue lights to overpower then red ones...
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RespectJSB
Trick Member
Joined: 01 Mar 2007
Location: "Da 'Burg" (St Pete, FL) |
| 43. Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 7:11 am Post subject: |
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I did not like the way that LED's worked out (little pinpoints of not very bright light) so I went ahead and ordered CCFLs from SVC.com.
The "superbright" blues are not significantly brighter than the reds. According to the specs, they are only like 1000 cd brighter (like 30000 vs 29000). Actually, the reds seem a tad brighter than blues, but that might be because the darker blue arrow graphics are blocking more light.
I can also confirm that the "2 diode" method does work perfectly. Again it must be said that the light needs to be wired into the + side of switch, which is different than the directions in the guide. Diodes are dirt cheap so it doesnt save money but it sure cuts down on wire clutter and requires less soldering
Much respect to Frosty for creating his very informative how-to, LightningXCE for the CCFL idea and Eradicator for the 2 diode tip.
Ken |
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Frosty555
Trick Member
Joined: 14 Jun 2003
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| 44. Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 7:57 am Post subject: Re: Number of diodes? |
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| Eradicator wrote: | What am I missing with the circuit diagram in the original message? It looks like you're using twice as many diodes as necessary - I can't figure out what you're trying to do with the two diodes between the negative side of each switch and ground.
You can get away with two diodes per arrow by moving the lamp to the positive side of the circuit. See the topic at http://www.ransai.com/archives/forum3/viewtopic.php?t=46 regarding lighted buttons for a Pop'n controller, but same idea. |
I had a lot of headache in the past trying to get it working with 2 diodes. I ran it through 5Spice, an electonic circuit analyzer, and it came back with some varying voltages across the playstation controller when two or more buttons were pushed.
It looks deceivingly redundant, but, at least the way I did it, you *do* need that many diodes. If you use only two I found it will work for a *single* arrow, but not for more than one. Pushing down one arrow triggers all the others too.
Are you sure about it? If you were using LEDs (aka light emitting *diodes*) its possible the extra diodes were accidentally included without you realizing it. The same could go for the Pop'n'music controllers.
If you guys got it working using only two diodes instead of four, all the power to you, buttt I know that I played with that for many many hours and had a lot of problems. Four diodes was the most reliable way (that worked with all types of DC lighting)
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idConstruct
Trick Member
Joined: 12 Mar 2007
Location: Green Bay, WI |
| 45. Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 8:31 am Post subject: |
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Thats wierd... but it just doesn't make sense that you would need those extra diodes... what current are they blocking? It's like you're expecting electricity to come from the ground for some reason:
The arrows represent the flow of electrons...
In my design i'm using two cathodes for each arrow... and after looking up some specs on the cathodes i realized my amp requirement is way beyond what i had been expecting... (my superbright cathodes will require approx. 800mA per inverter) and putting aside the problem of finding a 3 amp dc adapter (i think i'll just put several in parallel) i'll need to get some more powerful diodes...
Edit:
I just put my schematic into 5spice which uses the 2 diode design... i haven't wired it up yet though because i need to get my soldering iron back and the cathodes are just arriving today:
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Last edited by idConstruct on Sat Jul 28, 2007 12:21 pm, edited 1 time in total |
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Eradicator
Basic Member
Joined: 09 Dec 2005
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| 46. Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 10:12 am Post subject: Re: Number of diodes? |
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| Frosty555 wrote: | | Eradicator wrote: | What am I missing with the circuit diagram in the original message? It looks like you're using twice as many diodes as necessary - I can't figure out what you're trying to do with the two diodes between the negative side of each switch and ground.
You can get away with two diodes per arrow by moving the lamp to the positive side of the circuit. See the topic at http://www.ransai.com/archives/forum3/viewtopic.php?t=46 regarding lighted buttons for a Pop'n controller, but same idea. |
I had a lot of headache in the past trying to get it working with 2 diodes. I ran it through 5Spice, an electonic circuit analyzer, and it came back with some varying voltages across the playstation controller when two or more buttons were pushed.
It looks deceivingly redundant, but, at least the way I did it, you *do* need that many diodes. If you use only two I found it will work for a *single* arrow, but not for more than one. Pushing down one arrow triggers all the others too.
Are you sure about it? If you were using LEDs (aka light emitting *diodes*) its possible the extra diodes were accidentally included without you realizing it. The same could go for the Pop'n'music controllers.
If you guys got it working using only two diodes instead of four, all the power to you, buttt I know that I played with that for many many hours and had a lot of problems. Four diodes was the most reliable way (that worked with all types of DC lighting) |
Yup, I'm sure. I used the stock 14v incandescent lights that came with the jumbo pushbuttons for my Pop'n controller. All my grounds are tied together. For each button, the signal goes from the controller source, through a diode, through the button, to ground. The lighting circuit goes from the 14v source, through the lamp, through a diode, through the button, to ground. If you're seeing multiple arrows trigger when you press one with this configuration, you've got a short somewhere.
Having the lights downstream of the switch is what's confusing. Current is likely going to take the path of least resistance and just flow from the switch directly to ground. |
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LightningXCE
Trick Member
Joined: 17 Aug 2006
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| 47. Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 8:10 pm Post subject: |
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| idConstruct wrote: | | LightningXCE wrote: |
I ordered dual Red and "Superbright Blue" kits, they run on 12v each.
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Question: Were the superbright blue tubes noticeably brighter than the regular reds? I was just wondering because i don't see a superbright red, and I wouldnt want the blue lights to overpower then red ones... |
They really aren't. They only are a bit for me because I used really thick card-stock paper >>;
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idConstruct
Trick Member
Joined: 12 Mar 2007
Location: Green Bay, WI |
| 48. Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 10:59 pm Post subject: |
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I ordered both blue and red in superbright and they just came in today... (one of the red tubes was defective but i already have an rma #)
I think they'll be perfect... although i got the 12" so i'll have to criss-cross them inside the arrow wells. And as for the arrow blocking them, i won't have to worry about that because i'm just etching the designs right into the lexan with my dremel, so theres really nothing getting in the way...
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RespectJSB
Trick Member
Joined: 01 Mar 2007
Location: "Da 'Burg" (St Pete, FL) |
| 49. Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 4:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | In my design i'm using two cathodes for each arrow... and after looking up some specs on the cathodes i realized my amp requirement is way beyond what i had been expecting... (my superbright cathodes will require approx. 800mA per inverter) and putting aside the problem of finding a 3 amp dc adapter (i think i'll just put several in parallel) i'll need to get some more powerful diodes... |
I bought a 5-amp DC adaptor from ebay, it was marketed as a replacement for LCD monitors. I couldnt track down an exact current draw for 4" CCFL's but figured this should be plenty! It was like $25 shipped. I cut the stock DC plug off the end and soldered on a DC socket, and then soldered a compatible plug to the end of my light wiring. so that way when I move the pad I can disconnect the power and I dont have to worry about this heavy brick yanking my wiring.
If I can figure out how to post some pix I'll try to put some up
Ken |
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idConstruct
Trick Member
Joined: 12 Mar 2007
Location: Green Bay, WI |
| 50. Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 5:33 pm Post subject: |
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Well, what i was originally gonna do was just get an extension cord and run it inside one of the empty arrow wells, then hook up the adapter/s from there... which would keep them internal and out of the way
But then i realized that even the cheapest power supply on newegg.com ($10) would have more than enough amperage on its 12v rail to power these things... and it probably wouldn't add all that much weight either... Although as some of you may know... the power supply is not constantly 'on' when its plugged in... so i'll have to get a pinout of a standard atx psu to figure out which wires need to be shorted.
oh, and here's where i found amperage for these things (it says 700mA, but i added 100 because mine is superbright... it probably doesn't make a difference but w/e...): http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=372536
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RespectJSB
Trick Member
Joined: 01 Mar 2007
Location: "Da 'Burg" (St Pete, FL) |
| 51. Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 7:54 am Post subject: |
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Here's some ghetto thumbnails of pad lighting and wiring.
You should be able to click the pic to link to larger image. The album they are in has a bunch of pics of various stages of construction (and reconstruction) of both my pads.
enjoy
KO
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Ghettobarney
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Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Location: Failing Pandy |
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Marq(uistadorous)
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Joined: 03 Aug 2005
Location: Arvada, CO |
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idConstruct
Trick Member
Joined: 12 Mar 2007
Location: Green Bay, WI |
| 54. Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 7:50 am Post subject: |
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putting one of those leds under each panel would probably be really dim actually... and highly focused.
http://www.svc.com is having a great sale on 12" red and blue cold cathodes, i would (and did) go with this option. (the 12" ones are big, yes... but if you criss-cross them they should fit... the next size down are the 4" tubes and those arent on sale, so they're practically the same price)
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Last edited by idConstruct on Tue Apr 17, 2007 8:35 am, edited 1 time in total |
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idConstruct
Trick Member
Joined: 12 Mar 2007
Location: Green Bay, WI |
| 55. Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 7:51 am Post subject: |
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Sry about the double post  ... my connection is being weird. (it took me 5 minutes just to edit this post afterwards)
[Now why the he11 aren't we allowed to delete our own posts???]
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Marq(uistadorous)
Trick Member
Joined: 03 Aug 2005
Location: Arvada, CO |
| 56. Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 11:28 am Post subject: |
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| idConstruct wrote: |
http://www.svc.com is having a great sale on 12" red and blue cold cathodes, i would (and did) go with this option. (the 12" ones are big, yes... but if you criss-cross them they should fit... the next size down are the 4" tubes and those arent on sale, so they're practically the same price) |
Can I get those at radioshack or something? I'm not gonna order lights online...
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idConstruct
Trick Member
Joined: 12 Mar 2007
Location: Green Bay, WI |
| 57. Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 12:11 pm Post subject: |
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i've never seen them in a retail store... maybe someone else has though
why don't you want to order online?
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Marq(uistadorous)
Trick Member
Joined: 03 Aug 2005
Location: Arvada, CO |
| 58. Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 1:25 pm Post subject: |
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It's much more of a hassle since I don't have a credit card and my parents are paranoid, AND I have to wait... But If I did, what kind of batteries would I need in each panel for if I used the 4" lights
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idConstruct
Trick Member
Joined: 12 Mar 2007
Location: Green Bay, WI |
| 59. Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 1:43 pm Post subject: |
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lol batteries? I'm using a computer power supply (my friend has a spare i'll use, otherwise i would have gotten this)
The amperage requirement of the cathodes are too high to use batteries (besides... do you really want to have to open up your pad all the time to change batteries?) The power supply isn't much heavier than an adapter, and at ten bucks (or free if you already have one) its cheaper too...
If using a power supply doesn't fit your design, maybe someone else has a solution that will work. (the power supply is overkill... but hey, its ten bucks  )
oh, i think i said this above, but i should note that there's a trick to using a power supply (it won't turn on unless you short two wires on the motherboard connector)... once i get the chance to mess around with one myself i'll put up a how-to or something
oh, and another note... the power requirement of the 4" and 12" is the same...(they use the same inverter) (i think the 4" tubes just get more power per inch, and are brighter (per inch) ... i got the 12" ones since that should prevent the light from being too focused (and of course the sale i mentioned  ))
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