12 footer discussion

[Hands R' Us]

Here we can discuss and debate on 12s. Notice that ! (Bang) is not included because it is now an 11 as of ITG PC.

Bloodrush: A huge mess of crossovers. It gets pretty bad during the slowdown. It is rumored to become a 13 in ITG3. Nothing else to say but OMG!! Difficulty: 10/10

Delirium: The easiest 12 in the game. Most of the song is pretty simple, except for the crossover holds. The only bad part is the extremely long stream towards the end. Difficulty: 5/10

Determinator: This stepchart features the fastest runs in the game. There is one long 24th swarm halfway through, so be sure that you have your health meter full before entering this suicidal segment of the stepchart! Difficulty: 9/10

Energizer: A mid-tier 12 that will test your stamina during the long runs. A few crossovers scattered throughout. Watch for the jumps and jackhammers. As with other speed songs, speed is your primary threat. Difficulty: 7/10

Euphoria: Holy cow!! Talk about crappy steps that are really frustrating! It's nearly impossible to get a decent score unless you have really good foot speed. The 32nd drills are enough to burn you out, especially with nearly 800 steps of pure torture. It cannot possibly get much worse than this! Difficulty: 10/10

Go 60 Go: Honestly, the only reason that this is a 12 is the BS 64th cyan note mess throughout. Not that hard to pass, but obviously difficult to score on. Crossovers make it rather tough, too. Difficulty: 6/10

Hardcore of the North: Just because this song has the highest stepcount of any song in ITG does not make this the toughest. Sure it is tiring as hell, but since there is absolutely no complexity in the steps, with enough stamina, this one's fairly easy. Difficulty: 7/10

Tell: What's worse than a large mound of dog poop? Numerous candle jumps littering the stepchart. Seriously, it's ridiculous. There aren't any really long swarms, though. The mines can kill you if you are not careful. Difficulty: 8/10

VerTex: Stamina is the main pain factor in this song and if you are forced to play on 1x speed due to the ending, it gets worse. The mines can also be treacherous at times. One false move and you will be on the receiving end of a purple F. But if you could memorize the ending and play on 2x, then it becomes substantially easier. Difficulty: 7/10
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ITG home version expert difficulty progress report: All songs beaten except Pandemonium

[AA Bob]

You're talking about passing difficulty, right? If so, then I disagree about Delirium being the easiest. Anyone with a little bit of footspeed can BS their way through Vertex once they get used to the speed changes (unless they're so used to speed mods that they find x1 completely crippling), but it takes decent stamina and speed to survive Delirium's long run.
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My Recall (home scores)
DDR/ITG videos

Emptyeye wrote:

So um, is it bad that awhile ago I was watching Family Guy, and when Quagmire came on, I thought something to the effect of "Whoa, It's AA Bob!" (I don't remember if the exact thought was "It's AA Bob" or "It's AA Bob's avatar", but I don't think it matters in this case)?

[#Infinity]

Alright, here are my opinions on all 12's in the game. I will be rating them based on difficulty to score and pass for the 12 block raitng.

Bloodrush: One of the most difficult 12's in In The Groove, due to its constant barrage of the most brutal crossovers in the game. Extremely awkward to step to and very stamina-draining. The only thing that keeps it from being a 13 is its mere 158 bpm, which makes the runs much easier to keep up with.
Passing difficulty for its rating: 4.5/5
Scoring difficulty for its rating: 4/5

Delirum: It seems easy enough, and then comes the nasty 16-measure death run at 163 bpm, which includes candles that cause it to be very difficult to keep up with. Nothing stands out as difficult to FA, but the run may be too fierce to make this a suitable choice for a first 12.
Passing difficulty for its rating: 3/5
Scoring difficulty for its rating: 2/5

Determinator: This is the only 12 block that I have not yet passed. 24th runs at 147 bpm? Incredibly difficult to overcome and properly FA, especially the 4-measure one, as well as the run at the very end of the stepchart. It may be full of breaks, but they don't make the enormous footspeed requirement any easier to clear. Basically fits as a 13.
Passing difficulty for its rating: 5/5
Scoring difficulty for its rating: 5/5

Energizer: Pretty much an average 12 block. Very tiring, but the runs are fairly easy and the song doesn't pose much beyond some random Tell-jumps that may trip you up.
Passing difficulty for its rating: 3/5
Scoring difficulty for its rating: 3.5/5

Euphoria: This was my first 12. Most people seem to be intimidated by the 32nd runs chunked in, but once you get used to them, they're really not that bad (except for the bursts of 3 and then immediately 5, as well as those during the slowdown). They're very short and don't require any foot movement like Determinator. This is, however, quite tricky to FA, since it poses some of the weirdest rhythms in any ITG stepchart. The Typical Tropical 12th jumps are also quite nasty.
Passing difficulty for its rating: 3/5
Scoring difficulty for its rating: 4.5/5

Go 60 Go: IMO, the easiest 12 overall passing-wise. Despite its consistency, its not even very draining at all and never becomes overwhelming except during the brief candle runs. However, while Omid has SDE'd this, the 64ths make the FA a huge challenge.
Passing difficulty for its rating: 1.5/5
Scoring difficulty for its rating: 3/5

Hardcore of the North: Pure stamina and endurance. More steps than any other official stepchart ever created in the history of dance games, thus filled with lots of 16th runs and 24th drills. Fortunately, the patterns that show up are easy, and they lack candles, making them easier to keep up with. However, this is still a brutally draining 12 block that may easily overwhelm newcomers to the rating.
Passing difficulty for its rating: 3.5/5
Scoring difficulty for its rating: 2.5/5

Tell: I hate Tell-jumps. Everyone does, it seems. The death runs are a bit challenging, but their patterns at least aren't very difficult at all. Stil, the Tell-jumps cause both passing and FA'ing the song to be a chore.
Passing difficulty for its rating: 3/5
Scoring difficulty for its rating: 4/5

Vertex: If the scrolling speed is too slow, it will become exceedingly difficult to read through and pass the minefields all over the stepchart. But if they're too fast, the very ending is instant death unless you have it memorized, which is honestly quite difficult to achieve (yes, I did try this once, and I failed miserably). This is the only reason why Vertex was not my first 12, as nothing is difficult to keep up with and the steps are not draining. The speed and mines issues are also quite fierce on the scoring difficulty of the song, though its still easier to FA than Euphoria and Bloodrush.
Passing difficulty for its rating: 2.5/5
Scoring difficulty for its rating: 3/5
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[Kaku]

Bloodrush
Passing: 5/5 (took me the most tries ever)
Scoring: 4/5

Delirium
Passing: 2/5
Scoring: 1/5

Determinator
Passing: 4/5
Scoring: 5/5

Energizer
Passing: 2/5
Scoring: 3/5

Euphoria
Passing: 2/5
Scoring: 5/5 (I don't get why this would be anything less)

Go 60 Go
Passing: 1/5 (i guess it could be a 3 if you suck at mines)
Scoring: 3/5

Hardcore of the North
Passing: 3/5
Scoring: 3/5

Tell
Passing: 2/5
Scoring: 4/5

Vertex
Passing: 3/5
Scoring: 2/5

I find VerTex pretty easy to score (lower than hotn instead of higher as in Infinity's rating) and Euphoria just has hard as Determinator.
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http://www.groovestats.com/index.php?page=profile&id=1614

[Tyrgannus]

I'm too lazy to do an extensive synopsis on the 12's like I did for the 11's in the other thread, but here's a few pointers.

Determinator is one of those songs that you either "can" or "can't". Period. It is sort of like crossovers with Mythology. Some people find Mythology an unspeakable hard 11 because they suck at crossovers, even though the rest of the song is easy. Well, Determinator has 90% of the song easy. Don't deny it. The ONLY two parts that are 12-worthy are the long stream and the end. The 16th stream and 24th bursts fit more into an 11 bracket, NOT a 12 anyway. So, either you have the footspeed, amd you regard Determinator as another 12, or you don't, and you regard it as the unspeakably hard chart that many say it is.

I learned how to essentially BS footspeed on this song by essentially spasming my feet and heel toeing when necessary, so I actually find this song easier to pass than some other 12's that many regard as easier such as Energizer.

My second point is this.

HOW THE CRAP DO YOU GUYS SCORE GO 60 GO! No seriously? My score on it is comparable to my Determinator score. Yeah......not joking.
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AA Bob wrote:

Summer is as much of a 12 as PSMO is a 9.

[#Infinity]

[Jun]

Yea so um where the hell is !(Bang)?
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[Tyrgannus]

! was, whether I agree with it or not, demoted by Roxor for ITG PC to an 11.


Yeah, I don't think it feels like an 11, but I actually can understand why they did it.
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AA Bob wrote:

Summer is as much of a 12 as PSMO is a 9.

[videoCWK]

I disagree on Delirium being the easiest. It is one of the easier 12's because of it's simplicity, but if you ask me, VerTex is the easiest. It's definetly deserving of a 12 rating, but it's just a bunch of 8ths. If speed and stamina aren't that much of a problem it can be passed easily. Delirium is a different case though. It's like VerTex because of it's way of being difficult. Stamina and speed are all you need to pass it. But since Delirium's 16th streams are faster than VerTex's 8th streams, and that Delirium's end stream is hell, I would say that it is not the easiest 12.
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[Kilroy(ZTC)]

Tell should be much lower and delirium much higher.

[ItsDrew]

Bloodrush (the hardest 12)
Passing: 6/5
Scoring: ?/5 <-- Can't even combo this so im not sure

Delirium (my first 12)
Passing: 2/5
Scoring: 1/5

Determinator (my second 12 (done at home) its just not that hard except the middle and I could easily pass it if my machine wasn't LD5)
Passing: 4/5
Scoring: 5/5

Energizer (still have yet to pass this)
Passing: 4/5
Scoring: 3/5

Euphoria (haven't passed)
Passing: 4/5
Scoring: 5/5

Go 60 Go (Have Not passed)
Passing: 3/5
Scoring: 4/5

Hardcore of the North (Have not passed)
Passing: 4/5
Scoring: 3/5

Tell (Have Not Passed)
Passing: 3/5
Scoring: 4/5

Vertex (Have Not Passed)
Passing: 3/5
Scoring: 2/5

This is how I see the Twelves anyway because I can't do twisty stuff or Mines so I find alot of stuff hard (I think ! is harder than Determinator and its not even a 12 anymore)
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In the Groove Videos (now with doubles)

[Marq(uistadorous)]

Heres how I would personally and honestly rate the overall difficulty for each song...

Bloodrush:
Difficulty: 9/10

Delirium:
Difficulty: 6/10

Determinator:
Difficulty: 7.5/10

Energizer:
Difficulty: 7/10

Euphoria:
Difficulty: 9.5/10

Go 60 Go:
Difficulty: 7.25/10

Hardcore of the North:
Difficulty: 7/10

Tell:
Difficulty: 8.25/10

VerTex:
Difficulty: 5/10
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[Asymptote]

Easiest is Vertex (! was the easiest, so I think it's new 11 rating is acceptable)
Hardest is Determinator or Bloodrush
Most fun is Energizer
Least fun is Go 60 Go
Could be a 12: Pandemonium hard
Could be a 13: none of them

and that's all I have to say about that.
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[DarkCore]

Anyone want to explain to me why Go *60* Go was re-rated a 12? I mean honestly, I just played it on Stepmania and all of the other 12's seem alot harder. I haven't completed any 12's on a pad so I can't really judge it but still.

[davidyko]

In my opinion, VerTex could be rated an 11. I have a better score on VerTex than on any 11 (although Charlene comes close), and hell, I can do better on VerTex than on Oasis or Disconnected -Hyper-.
All you have to do to get a decent score is figure out what the slow parts are on 1x (or memorize the fast part on 2x), and have a bit of stamina. And you don't even need that much stamina, as VerTex gives you a few handy-dandy slow parts for you to catch your breath.
VerTex was my first, and currently only 12. (I'm close to beating Delirium, though.)
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Mariogirl wrote:

Edit = lol I <3 davidyko

Groovestats
David needs more challenges.

[ICNH]

[Tyrgannus]

[shurf]

[DarkCore]

[shurf]

But you said all of the other 12's seem alot easier...