Should Bloodrush have been a 13?

psycho442 · Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 10:40 pm Post subject: Should Bloodrush have been a 13?

Bloodrush is the only 12 I haven't passed yet and I've been working on that song for quite a while now. I always fail on the incredibly twisty slowdown. I have a better chance of passing Pandamonium. The song was even rated a 13 during ITG2 beta testing. So, do you think it deserves a 13 rating?
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Kaku · Trick Member Joined: 22 Jan 2004 Location: Surrey, BC

Speed being not a problem for me (fc determinator mid/end streams like eh), I find it worthy of being a 13 cause Summer is just so much easier. It takes a lot more energy to do Bloodrush, the ability to read the slowdown, crossovers etc. Not to mention that it took me 7-8 tries to beat it while Summer and most of the other 12's took me one try. It was the last song in the game I beat (other than Vertex^2 and unlocks but that wasn't released yet).

I find it harder to pass, harder to score, and harder to read with or without mods (i.e. if I use Split on Summer I can pass it easily, but Split on Bloodrush is death).

And yes I do have a higher score on Summer than on Bloodrush. Many people I know are the same =\

Actually, it would make more sense to me if Summer was lowered to a 12 than the other way around maybe =\
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#Infinity · Trick Member Joined: 22 Jan 2006 Location: San Diego, CA

No way. It's seriously extremely overrated. I actually fly through the song with ease. Most of the patterns during the long runs aren't even that difficult, despite being somewhat hard to read. The only parts where the patterns are actually pretty hard are during the very beginning and ending, where they aren't even one consitent stream, thus making the steps easier to keep track of. Summer ~Speedy Mix~ is a 13 because you need a ton of footspeed to take on the long, complicated runs at a whopping 185 bpm. Bloodrush's streams are significantly slower, making them much easier to keep up with. Not even the slowdown seems to completely drop my life meter to zero. I could've been able to pass it had it not been for all the effort my local machine demanded to maneuver my feet enough to get through the part with the jump holds that's right after the slowdown.
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GotACoolName · Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 2:14 am Post subject:

Thirteen words:

Strengths and weaknesses.
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#Infinity · Trick Member Joined: 22 Jan 2006 Location: San Diego, CA

JJSz · Trick Member Joined: 26 Jul 2005

Supposedly, Roxor already confirmed that they are making Bloodrush a 13 and Summer a 12 for ITG3.
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Hands R' Us · Trick Member Joined: 15 Aug 2005 Location: Mars

#Infinity · Trick Member Joined: 22 Jan 2006 Location: San Diego, CA

If Bloodrush is a 13 in ITG 3, it will be the first 13 I'll ever pass for a while. Seriously, how are you supposed to compare it to the likes of VerTex^2 and Pandemonium? 13 footers are supposed to be the absolute hardest songs in the game, especially in terms of one big factor. Pandemonium has lots of long streams and plenty of brutal Tell jumps all over the place, guaranteed to wear anyone out. VerTex^2 has yet to even be *'d, and people are still impressed by the high score. It's overloaded with lots of mines, weird jumps, and, of course, the amazingly difficult ending that's hard in just about every aspect in the game. Even Summer ~Speedy Mix~ has its true ultimate challenge - long, complex streams at 185 bpm, which are harder than just about any other 16th streams in the game (Determinator has even worse streams, but it hardly burns any stamina because so much of the song is extremely easy). Bloodrush has...err...nothing. The high score on it is 99.67%, which is noticably higher than all 13's and even some 12's. To tell you the truth, I find Delirium to be harder than it, and that's saying something.
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Asymptote · Trick Member Joined: 07 Feb 2006 Location: Alloway, NY

Bloodrush is definately not a 13.... likewise, Summer is not a 12. Most people that argue this are just already very good players where passing both isn't a problem (which, Kaku, despite the fact that you said BR took you more tries to PASS, in the end, you can still tackle both no problem, it was just a matter of knowing the chart), but for many people long long streams of 16ths at 185 is just simply out of the question, whereas Bloodrush never gets faster than 150-something 16ths. It's just a big workout, but it's within a reasonable range for many because there aren't any individual parts or sections where the person would say, "oh i just simply cant do this", it's only a matter of putting it all together in one run. I look at Summer and there's plenty that I can get through, but I see those super fast runs, and it's simple.... right now I just CAN'T do them. It's not a matter of keeping stamina up throughout the song, it's just that I simply cannot do those runs right now, no matter how energized I'm feeling. So BR lacks the huge extended speed of Summer which is a 13 characteristic (Determinator is an odd duck, because it can be much easier to BS through than those massive Summer streams because of the intentionally easy arrow placement, although I'd say its definately the hardest 12 for me atm)... so what else? Theres also the stamina requirements of Pandemonium and the Technicality of V^2.... BR doesn't require nearly as much stamina as Pand., nor is it as nearly technical or messed up as V^2. It just doesn't really stack up to the 13's.
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GotACoolName · Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 2:35 pm Post subject:

JJSz · Trick Member Joined: 26 Jul 2005

With me, I passed Summer and Pandemonium before I passed Bloodrush, but it was only because I couldn't do / read the slowdown. Same with Determinator, I passed both Summer and Pandemonium before because I couldn't do the long 24th note run in the middle. I mostly agree with all of the other difficulty changes Roxor is making (Bang an 11, D-code a 9, a couple other ones), but IMO, both Summer and Bloodrush should stay where they are.
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#Infinity · Trick Member Joined: 22 Jan 2006 Location: San Diego, CA

Tyrgannus · Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 8:59 pm Post subject:

I can honestly say that I have passed both songs, neither on my first try.

Yes, I know I'm not the greatest, but I have passed them.

Here's my take on it: Bloodrush took me 3 tries to pass. It's patterns are simpler than I expected (I was led to believe it was as twisty as Mythology) and the runs other than like 2 are pretty short. The thing that kept me from passing it the first two times was

-It was a little draining, so it caught me off guard the first time
-I had trouble reading the mega stream in the slowdown

After that, I was good to go for a pass. Now Summer on the other hand was a lot different for me...it took me 3 months. I don't even KNOW how many tries it was. It's stamina factor is similar to Bloodrush's in all honesty, Bloodrush might even be more tiring, but I'm not quite sure.....
What kept me from passing was this.

-Candles at 185. No, not in the runs, I mean the little triple steps. No one told me this had candles.
-Jumps randomly thrown in places. THis screws me up a lot and was the reason I didn't beat Xuxa first try. (Got it 2nd)
-The one you've all been waiting for, mass footspeed. I can barely jam my legs that fast, that consistantly, and that accurately in order to pass. As much as I don't really use the bar, I was forced to COMPLETELY bar rape the last runs.....and it still took me 3 months to pass.

In other words, I really want both songs to keep their rating. I worked much harder at Summer, and now it is going to be a 12? Lame. Also, it makes Bloodrush a gimme 13.....it would be like ITG's Sakura. Sakura is way easy for a 10, and Bloodrush would be way easy for a 13.

Those are my two cents.
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Aoi Projekt · Trick Member Joined: 22 Mar 2006

Yeah actually to tell you the truth those crossovers and twists are stamina draining. But none the less i believe it should not be changed because of the fact that i know many people that passed it theyre first attempt. But then again i haven't.

Edit: Sorry For A n00b post but what are candles?
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#Infinity · Trick Member Joined: 22 Jan 2006 Location: San Diego, CA

Kaku · Trick Member Joined: 22 Jan 2004 Location: Surrey, BC

Saying Bloodrush isn't one of the hardest 12's to score just because someone has 99.67% on it means that you're saying Bloodrush is easier than Hardcore of the North because the top score on it is 99.17. aaand you're saying it's easier than ! because the top score on it is 99.66.

Top score on a song means NOTHING. A really good player can outclass everyone else on a song just by playing the song over and over again, getting a score higher than everyone else with their skill. It's what roxor thinks based on how players in general react to the song looking at both higher level and lower level players. If they looked at just higher level players Charlene would be a 9 and Determinator would be a 13.

Comparing my scores on each (94.xx on Summer and 91.xx on Bloodrush) as well as looking at many other players' GS scores on both songs, I can safely say that the majority of them have scores extremely close if not lower on Bloodrush than Summer. From a passing perspective, I personally had more trouble passing one than the other, and so did many of my friends who I play with.

Although 185 bpm 16ths may seem fast for some of people, score-wise the majority of people will get a higher score on Summer and Bloodrush in the end. That's why Summer is deserving of a lower rating than Bloodrush. MORE people have a bigger problem with Bloodrush than Summer, thus swapping the difficulties would make sense to most people.
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Da Bar · Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 5:14 am Post subject:

Bloodrush is only hard if
1. you have stamina issues
2. you can't crossover well
3. you can't read a combination of slow and fast speeds.

if one and/or two are a problem, you shouldn't be playing 12/13's anyways.

it's a 12, and should remain one.
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ThePandemonium · Trick Member Joined: 05 Jul 2005

Blood Rush should stay and so should Summer. Bloodrush I was able to do at 1x with little problems. I BSed my way though the slowdown and passed it first try. SUmmer on the other hand, I couldnt do because of the speed and lenth of the death run.
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#Infinity · Trick Member Joined: 22 Jan 2006 Location: San Diego, CA

Kaku, difficulty ratings have nothing to do with how hard a song is to score (L'amour, anyone?).
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