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ihcw.stefank687
Trick Member
Joined: 16 Jun 2005
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60.  Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 8:37 am Post subject: |
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| When i build up my stamina more i definitely want to try and break 90 on pandy EX no bar... i tried it the other day right after doing it with the bar.... i got a little bit into the long run in the middle still combo'ing with 41.xx at that point and then was too tired to continue...broke combo...and walked off |
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DevilKhai IIDX
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Joined: 12 Apr 2003
Location: A whole new kind of hell |
| 61. Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2005 1:50 pm Post subject: |
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For me it's a balance thing, I can bracket rape on 1x and get mostly fantastics on alot of songs (my favorite is Agent Blatant.) But there are some 11s I find extremely difficult without a bar.
Like Hardcore Symphony: The 16th runs put LoM runs to shame and are longer. And the jump-step-jump crap ALMOST had me reaching for the bar. I know this stuff is possible without it, but at what point do I start getting down these songs? HotN no bar IS easier than this. 
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figgy20000
Trick Member
Joined: 16 Feb 2004
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| 62. Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2005 3:33 am Post subject: |
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| Rancidfish wrote: | Also, a lot of songs use hands, which sort of force you to let go of either some holds (and get a lower score) or the bar (to use your hands)... so they obviously didn't expect everybody to always use the bar. Also, when shown some PIU nightmare charts and asked to give them ITG ratings, mjemerizan commented "Some of these look outright uncombo-able without the bar, which goes against ITG design mentality" (or something along those lines, I'm paraphrasing), so they obviously didn't expect the bar to be mandatory for harder songs.
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MJ obviously didn't relook his horible horible ITG Doubles stepcharts then which are pretty much Dam Dariram at twice the speed throughout 90% of the friggn charts. I'd give 200$ on the spot to anyone who could FC Energizer doubles expert normally in front of me with no bar, it's not posible.
I'm sure anyone else who plays doubles knows just how lame liquid moon is already, there are songs like that with ratings 2 levels above it. |
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New_Age
Trick Member
Joined: 18 Jul 2002
Location: Northwest Pennsylvania |
| 63. Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2005 12:52 am Post subject: Differing view... |
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| SPF5.Kiba wrote: |
If the bar is not necessary, show me a competitve score on a 13 footer achieved without it's use. |
This is definitive evidence that yes, use of the bar is a handicap.
The overwhelming sensitivity of this issue is confusing to me. Before In the Groove existed, use of the bar was almost always frowned upon; it was tough to find a tournament that allowed it. Now that ITG is out and the ante has been raised, it's simply acceptable because the songs are more difficult. Using the bar went from a blatant infringement of the basis of the game to simply being "Okay because the songs are harder". I'd think that raising the difficulty of the steps would motivate players to rise to the occasion as opposed to simply causing most of them to accept a once deplorable but now favorable practice. |
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Rancidfish
Trick Member
Joined: 29 Jun 2002
Location: Santa Rosa, CA/Santa Cruz, CA |
| 64. Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2005 10:45 am Post subject: |
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| figgy20000 wrote: | | I'm sure anyone else who plays doubles knows just how lame liquid moon is already, there are songs like that with ratings 2 levels above it. |
Liquid Moon double expert isn't that bad. I could imagine FCing that no-bar at some point and some of the 1/8th note runs are pretty cool. Overall, I just consider it pretty creative.
On the other hand, I'm frustrated by songs like Twilight expert: I don't understand how that's combo-able with OR without the bar.
So, I don't really know what MJ is coming from... but that's still what he said. Maybe we can get a video of MJ full-comboing Twilight no-bar to shut us up?  | New_Age wrote: | | Before In the Groove existed, use of the bar was almost always frowned upon; it was tough to find a tournament that allowed it. Now that ITG is out and the ante has been raised, it's simply acceptable because the songs are more difficult. |
This definitely depended on where you are. For example, in the northwest and in Japan, bar use has pretty much always been acceptable long before In the Groove came out. In other areas, it is much more frowned upon, and even continues to be after the release of ITG. (I've heard of several arcades where strongly anti-bar employees actually kick out players who use the bar for "misusing the machine"... basically treating bar rape like matrix-walking.)
Personally, I have had multiple opinions of bar-rape. Early on, I didn't care. This changed as I spent more time on DDRFreak, as I got indoctrinated into anti-bar culture, since the people who are anti-bar are a lot more vocal about it than the people who aren't. However, at some point, I tried using the bar, and I actually for some time became more respectful of bar players than non-bar players.
Using the bar doesn't fix everything, like many of its proponents seem to believe. There are actually a lot of challenges associated with just using the bar: restriction of movement, exertion of the arms, etc. Thus, though using the bar can be a great help, it is also a skill in itself. For a long time, I thought that the bar was entirely acceptable, just not my thing. Long after that, I decided that I would advance faster with that skill than without, so I forced myself to learn to use it. I failed 7s and 8s trying to make myself accustomed to the bar.
So, I don't think you can just say "It was frowned upon" as justification that it is bad. A lot of the people who were/are anti-bar hadn't ever played with the bar, and simply assumed it made things easier, because many of the best players do it. Personally, I'm neutral towards the bar, and I try to improve myself both with and without the bar. I hope that you can try using the bar a while and come to your own conclusion.
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Last edited by Rancidfish on Tue Aug 16, 2005 11:00 am, edited 1 time in total |
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FujiFlame
Trick Member
Joined: 15 Sep 2004
Location: Orlando, FL |
| 65. Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2005 10:57 am Post subject: Re: Differing view... |
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| New_Age wrote: | This is definitive evidence that yes, use of the bar is a handicap.
The overwhelming sensitivity of this issue is confusing to me. Before In the Groove existed, use of the bar was almost always frowned upon; it was tough to find a tournament that allowed it. Now that ITG is out and the ante has been raised, it's simply acceptable because the songs are more difficult. Using the bar went from a blatant infringement of the basis of the game to simply being "Okay because the songs are harder". I'd think that raising the difficulty of the steps would motivate players to rise to the occasion as opposed to simply causing most of them to accept a once deplorable but now favorable practice. |
I think I understand what you're saying...basically, the bar should be accepted as common practice, right? Instead of any longer being the thing that, as you said, was frowned upon. I agree. |
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Rancidfish
Trick Member
Joined: 29 Jun 2002
Location: Santa Rosa, CA/Santa Cruz, CA |
| 66. Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2005 11:02 am Post subject: Re: Differing view... |
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| [ES] FujiFlame wrote: | | I think I understand what you're saying...basically, the bar should be accepted as common practice, right? Instead of any longer being the thing that, as you said, was frowned upon. I agree. |
...is this sarcasm? He's obviously anti-bar from his language and opening sentence. :S
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BeyondDark
Trick Member
Joined: 18 Apr 2005
Location: Millington, TN |
| 67. Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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Not that this matters...or maybe it does....but I got 82% on Pandemonium on expert with no bar.
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| JAMJAMDOLLAR wrote: | | damn chris expects ppl to do this poopy with their feet when i cant even do it with my fingers? |
http://tinyurl.com/BeyondDark |
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diddrstrait
Trick Member
Joined: 01 Jan 2004
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| 68. Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 12:51 pm Post subject: |
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| BeyondDark wrote: | | Not that this matters...or maybe it does....but I got 82% on Pandemonium on expert with no bar. |
good for you, now imagine what your score might have been if you had taken the time to learn to use the bar to your advantage. This isn't the "I do it this way so everyone else should be able to do it, too" thread. It's the "is the bar required" thread, and the question has been answered with a resounding no multiple times. It's up to the individual to decide now whether they will choose to learn to use it or perfect their no-bar play.
as a side note, I'm curious whether your score is on a bugged ITG2, because if it isn't it may just be the highest pandy no bar score ever. Pickles and JBoyAAA haven't gotten that high on it I don't believe. |
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FujiFlame
Trick Member
Joined: 15 Sep 2004
Location: Orlando, FL |
| 69. Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 4:06 pm Post subject: Re: Differing view... |
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| Rancidfish wrote: | | [ES] FujiFlame wrote: | | I think I understand what you're saying...basically, the bar should be accepted as common practice, right? Instead of any longer being the thing that, as you said, was frowned upon. I agree. |
...is this sarcasm? He's obviously anti-bar from his language and opening sentence. :S |
Actually there was a level of misunderstanding there on my part XD. His statement "I'd think that raising the difficulty of the steps would motivate players to rise to the occasion as opposed to simply causing most of them to accept a once deplorable but now favorable practice." threw me off. I interpreted that as what I replied with. Regardless of what he meant, I still stick to what I was able to derive from his post  . |
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BeyondDark
Trick Member
Joined: 18 Apr 2005
Location: Millington, TN |
| 70. Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 8:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Syncognition wrote: | | BeyondDark wrote: | | Not that this matters...or maybe it does....but I got 82% on Pandemonium on expert with no bar. |
good for you, now imagine what your score might have been if you had taken the time to learn to use the bar to your advantage. This isn't the "I do it this way so everyone else should be able to do it, too" thread. It's the "is the bar required" thread, and the question has been answered with a resounding no multiple times. It's up to the individual to decide now whether they will choose to learn to use it or perfect their no-bar play.
as a side note, I'm curious whether your score is on a bugged ITG2, because if it isn't it may just be the highest pandy no bar score ever. Pickles and JBoyAAA haven't gotten that high on it I don't believe. |
I don't know if it was on a bugged machine or not...I don't know about that kind of stuff. I just know the machine is ITG2 in the Family Fun Center in Hersonville, TN. Everyone there knows i don't use the bar. And also, I've tried using the bar. I suck really bad at it. Like I can't even doo Max 300 with the bar but i can AA without the bar. I guess I need practice then.
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| JAMJAMDOLLAR wrote: | | damn chris expects ppl to do this poopy with their feet when i cant even do it with my fingers? |
http://tinyurl.com/BeyondDark |
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diddrstrait
Trick Member
Joined: 01 Jan 2004
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| 71. Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 11:11 pm Post subject: |
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the way to tell if the machine is bugged or not is by playing a song, and in the result screen if the difficulty tag only says "expert" with no number, it is a buggy machine. if it says "expert" with a number, than the scoring bug is fixed.
the scoring bug doesn't count misses against you. If you get a miss, way off, or hit a mine, they have no effect on your score at all, thus inflating your score if you fail to full combo the song. |
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BeyondDark
Trick Member
Joined: 18 Apr 2005
Location: Millington, TN |
| 72. Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 11:05 am Post subject: |
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I don't kow if it is a bugged machine because I wasn't paying attention to that part of the screen. Next time I'll look though.
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| JAMJAMDOLLAR wrote: | | damn chris expects ppl to do this poopy with their feet when i cant even do it with my fingers? |
http://tinyurl.com/BeyondDark |
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VxJasonxV
Maniac Member
Joined: 08 Feb 2002
Location: Castle Rock, CO |
| 73. Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 2:19 pm Post subject: |
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If you have a USB Card that you play with.
You can inspect your Stats.xml file.
If "ProductID" is 3, you have a bugged machine.
If ProductID is 4, you do not have a score bugged machine.
Then again, if you had a USB card, you could just look for the difficulty number on results screenshots .
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BeyondDark
Trick Member
Joined: 18 Apr 2005
Location: Millington, TN |
| 74. Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 2:49 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah...I don't have a USB card.
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| JAMJAMDOLLAR wrote: | | damn chris expects ppl to do this poopy with their feet when i cant even do it with my fingers? |
http://tinyurl.com/BeyondDark |
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