Update on Konami v. Roxor

Cutriss · Staff Member Joined: 24 Jan 2002

For those of you who are following the Konami v. Roxor et al case, we have some new case documents for your review. The most interesting development is that Roxor has filed countersuit against Konami, particularly alleging that Konami's patent is invalid and that its marks have become too generic to assert trademark infringement.

Roxor's Response and Counterclaim
Konami's answer to counterclaims
Order for discovery

Enjoy.
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Okiyama · Trick Member Joined: 06 Aug 2005

I hope konami wins but roxor gets to continue making music games...

that would be best case senario

ps yay second post

I_Love_DDR · Trick Member Joined: 26 Jun 2005 Location: Ohio

First time to ever comment first heck yeah!!! I read on the report once till my eyes hurt. I think that this fight is stupid. I mean competition is good. Atleast Roxor is trying to make the dancing world bigger and better by making a game.

Heffenfeffer · Trick Member Joined: 22 Apr 2002 Location: Las Cruces, NM

I'm no legal beagle, but lemme see if I've got this straight: (And if there're any lawyers in the house, would you mind doing a little pro bono analysis?

)

1: RoXoR denies that they have violated Konami's patents on the grounds that their device does not use the 835 patent, does not implicitly liscense the 835 patent, and, even if it did, the 835 patent has become generic.

2: RoXoR denies that they have infringed on or diluted Konami's trademarks on the grounds that they had no knowledge of arcade owners failing to cover up DDR labels with ITG labels.

3: RoXoR is staying out of the RedOctane and MadCatz part of the suit, other than admitting that they partnered with RedOctane to put ITG on PS2.

4: RoXoR is asking for damages for lost business due to willful unfair competition by Konami.

5: Konami's response is that they deny the charges of unfair competition by RoXoR and ask for compensation of attorney fees from the countersuit.

6: Should neither side reach a settlement or move for a different date before then, a trial will take place on February 12, 2007. Before said date, there will be numerous milestones and hearings for the evidence presented in that trial.

That's what I think is going on. Can anyone with a little more of a legal background confirm or deny this?
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AceJay · Trick Member Joined: 15 Oct 2004 Location: Princeton, NJ

Haha, if I was the judge:

*gavel* "Alright, RoXoR and Konami both get a million dollars."

"You;" *points at RoXoR*, "Stop making BoXoRs."

"And you;" *points at Konami*, "Make a new arcade mix."

Good enough solution.
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Tsuri · Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2005 7:57 am Post subject:

Well they do make an interesting point... Konami is indeed trying to unfairly stop competition from existing... much like if someone copyrighted 2D side scrolling games before Mario existed and took Nintendo to court for making it... and then Sega for Sonic the hedgehog and so on... Konami adding Mad Catz is just proof of this since we know Mad Catz junk is already considered junk by most... how much money did they make off MC Groove? None? haha

A game genre can only go so far with only one choice to choose from... what's next? Konami adding the NeonFM guys to this?

Reenee · Trick Member Joined: 21 Nov 2003

NeonFM has already consulted with Konami and confirmed they are in the clear.

dieKatze88 · Trick Member Joined: 10 Aug 2003

xbskid · Trick Member Joined: 06 Sep 2004

I'm glad NeonFM is in the clear. At least it spices things up. ItG was simply DDR (Yes, same gameplay) with a crapload of mods and silly music (My opinion. Get off me) (And DJ Potatoe should get permission from DJ Damien to use Guyz Dongz as the compliment to Girlz buttz).

..But what about DANCE PRAISE?!

AdamSTF · Trick Member Joined: 31 Jul 2003 Location: NY

Maybe Konami wouldn't be suing Roxor if the ITG steps didn't suck so bad.
Yes, I contributed nothing to this thread.
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Reenee · Trick Member Joined: 21 Nov 2003

Then don't post, obviously.

dieKatze88 · Trick Member Joined: 10 Aug 2003

Yeah well RoXor screwed up somewhere to piss Konami off so badly. But hey, what can we do.

I could make that Dance Praise Crap in about 15 minutes using Stepmania. No joke.
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DeathRazor · Trick Member Joined: 22 Apr 2003 Location: SF, SD

Fanboys of either side need not post, unless it is intelligent.

In any case, I really wish the trial date wasn't so far away, but oh well.
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Wolfman Jake · Trick Member Joined: 13 Sep 2002

DDRNemesis · Trick Member Joined: 10 Jun 2004 Location: Bryan, OH

93. Not only do Roxorâs products not literally infringe the â835 patent, but, in
addition, Roxorâs products are so different in function and operation from that disclosed in the
â835 patent that Roxorâs products could not be found to infringe under the doctrine of
equivalents.

Can Roxor really say that about ITG? They are not different in function and they use the same basic gameplay.
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Mike Oxlahrj · Trick Member Joined: 10 May 2005

Tomo_kun · Trick Member Joined: 26 Oct 2003 Location: SE-WI.

Just wondering, isnt the WHOLE POINT to the Jamma standard is that you *can* easially switch out the hardware and games?

In all honesty though, ITG and DDR look very similar. A LOT of people who play the games casually and dont know the difference will call ITG DDR. Yes, roxor screwed up by making this game (Im sorry, but DDR Is in NO WAY generic, there where TWO mayjor step-based arcade games, and they are atleast different). Konami did, however, screw up by not re-opening US-AM.

Yes, in the groove is an amazing game. However, the differences between the two games (Im not talking about songs, but im talking about battle*, marathon and modifiers) are NOT going to be noticed by the casual arcade go-er who plays the game once or twice. To them, its the exact same game with a different interface and different songs. Sure roxor thinks its different enough, but when you look at it, its the exact same arrow layout. Atleast fighting games have different charachters and moves the average person can tell the difference with.

* battle is dance magic in DDR Disney Mix.
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Uiru · Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2005 9:27 am Post subject:

I would be interested in a clarification of how, exactly, Konami has been willfully and unfairly trying to fuck around with ITG's sales, when Roxor has been stripping DDR cabinets left right and center to put their crap in. Surely suing your stupid ass for being retarded isn't a suable offence (even in America, one would hope).

Also, I got the impression that a lot of Roxor's response was them putting their hands over their ears and going "blah blah blah blah blah"... ended by "hay guys look we can sue too! *dig dig dig*".

Had they just said "fine here's your money, now let's just do our things with no more Boxors", they might have worked out an arrangement much like Pump. Now it seems like they're going to make it a whole shit ton worse for themselves. You cannot have no clue how copyright law works and expect to win against a massive corporation that has been protecting its patents for years.

Any response from RO and Mad Catz? As these two are actual legitimate businesses, I would expect a more sensible response.
~Uiru
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