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Really really easy. Don't hurt your brain.
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JSBoOGeNie
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40. PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2003 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

right in the anal.
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Larrikin
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41. PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2003 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What did you do when 5th mix was around?
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TL
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42. PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2003 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

larrikin wrote:
What did you do when 5th mix was around?


when 5th mix was around, i failed dynamite rave on standard
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Phrekwenci
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43. PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2003 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Goten The G1n6eRBr3admaN wrote:
And anyways, I garuntee that all the best PAers in the world play with speed mods.


Not all, many of the best in NY (which they are pretty good, AAAs and all) don't play with speed mods. Maybe it is because they are stubborn and think it isn't cool. (Our best here in NY can get 6 greats on Xenon, 1x)

I have another situation. Consider a fighting game tournament on a console, and you have your own controls for the game, and you are awfully good with this control type. You come to the tournament and find out that the controls are default only. Now, you are at a disadvantage. Probably will lose your match without question. Why? because you cannot play your best with the settings used.

If the tournament let you play at your best, you know you could take out everyone if you had a different set up.

(Yea, I am still mad at that DOA3 tournament)
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Remy
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44. PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2003 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JSBoOGeNie wrote:
Quote:
But other kinds of tournaments exist. I suppose you don't think a perfect attack options tournament is illegitimate, do you?


No. I think those are fine, but I think it should be noted in the title. Those aren't perfect attack tournaments. Those are options tournaments.

Quote:
No, because the goal is to find the best player when you put X amount of options on the song. How about an perfect attack S4R tournament? No, because the goal is find the best S4R player.


Yes. And that's why they're called...get ready...S4R tournaments.

Quote:
There are also perfect attack 1x tournaments that try to find the best player on 1x, and they are perfectly legitimate.


Indeed, but they should be referred to as such, because by being 1x only, you're eliminating a large amount of competition, and therefore, you can't say you won a pure perfect attack tournament.


I'm missing something here...

Perfect Attack with various options allowed should be referred to as a "Perfect Attack Options"...
Sudden and Shuffle should be referred to as a "Perfect Attack S4R"...
Perfect Attack where you aren't allowed to use speed mods should be referred to as "Perfect Attack 1x"...
Perfect Attack where you ARE allowed to use speed mods should be referred to as "Pure Perfect Attack"?

How does keeping the game in its base state, where you aren't touching the options at all, make it somehow less "pure" than allowing a particular set of options?

Just curious.
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Sk1p
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45. PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2003 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Remy wrote:
How does keeping the game in its base state, where you aren't touching the options at all, make it somehow less "pure" than allowing a particular set of options?

Just curious.

He's using "pure" in a different sense -- speed mod tournaments are concerned only with perfects, not how one goes around getting those perfects.

I still think that 1x tournaments are completely valid, though, if only because of your point that it is the default setting of the machine.
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gs68
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46. PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2003 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Saiyajin wrote:
So, I guess it all comes down to... would you rather play for fun, or as a cut-throat battle for the throne of #1 in your tournament? I would rather play for fun... after all, it is just a video game.


I'd rather play in a competition. These days life is war. People fight over stuff 25 hours a day, 8 days a week.
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JSBoOGeNie
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47. PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2003 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1x tournaments are fine. Like I said, do whatever the hell you want, but you have to realize that 1x tournaments are not average normal PA tournaments, because the point remains youre putting the best players in the country at a disadvantage.

Heres the facts.


The best players in the country use speed mods. Period.

Lith uses them
Tigger uses them.
Chronologue uses them.
JSBlade9+9x9x9 uses them.

Quote:
(Our best here in NY can get 6 greats on Xenon, 1x)


Thanks for saying that, because heres a good example.


He gets 6 greats on Xenon 1x. I'm willing to bet if he did 2x or 3x his greatcount wouldn't improve a whole lot. Mostly because hes used to 1x. In essense, he plays his BEST on 1x on xenon.

I can get 1 great on xenon on 3x. I think its safe to say I'm better at Xenon then said New York player.

BUT, forcing both of us to play on 1x gives him the obvious advantage, as hes playing on his best speed, and I'm not. It's the same, fairness-wise, as forcing us both to play on 3x. Where I'd almost certainly kill him.
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gs68
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48. PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2003 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you people looked at Aaron's AAA page lately? Many of the players on that page used speed mods.
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ADHD Goten
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49. PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2003 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Lith uses them
Tigger uses them.
Chronologue uses them.
JSBlade9+9x9x9 uses them.


Vegeta(Eric) uses them.
Goku(JR) uses them.
Vizion(Sean) uses them.
Zero(Dave) uses them.
Sonic(Mike) uses them.
Micharu(Bryan) uses them.
I use them. E13.gif E15.gif
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SO! loves Electroplankton
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50. PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2003 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think what tuonaments should be like is

MODIFIER TOURNAMENTS!!!

The player selects a song, and each player turns around, and are given a select set of modifiers to go with it. Stealth of course, is forbidden. But it would challenge you, because you don't know if its gonna be an 8x modifier, or a .5x modifier or WHAT!
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Saiyajin
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51. PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2003 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would rather eat poop than play Legend of Max at 8x.
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TL
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52. PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2003 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Saiyajin wrote:
I would rather eat poop than play Legend of Max at 8x.


i guarantee you wouldnt
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Romantic Boy
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53. PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2003 6:42 pm    Post subject: Hmmmmmm Reply with quote

JSBoOGeNie wrote:
I can get 1 great on xenon on 3x.


Yups you certainly can.

I remember you playing that song with me @ Powerstation. I've never played it before...until then. (I was the guy in the black dress shirt that gave you the free game of DDR) and it was a pleasure playing you as well John.

I remember that. You DID put Xenon on 3 speed. Dont remember the number of greats you got (But it was single digits)

All I gotta say is "yikes"
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JSBoOGeNie
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54. PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2003 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know who you are. I put 2 and 2 together when I saw you playing tekken so much.

Pleasure playing with you as well.

Finally somebody on the internet thats nice. haha.
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St. Nick
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55. PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2003 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Speed mods, speed mods...should be allowed.

To those who say : "1x is the default speed. You should only play on that in tournys."

Beginner is the default difficulty...

With so many ppl using speed mods these days, having a tourny without them makes as much sense as a tourny where you can't use 1x.
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JSBoOGeNie
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56. PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2003 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
To those who say : "1x is the default speed. You should only play on that in tournys."

Beginner is the default difficulty...


Brilliant. Thank you St. Nick. I didn't even THINK of that. Thank you.

frick brilliant.
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Mark
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57. PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2003 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the player wants to use a speed mod in a PA tournament, then he should be able to at his discretion. If the tournament forces someone to play with modifiers picked by someone else, then that's pretty unfair. Especially if it's something other than a speed mod like shuffle or dark.

Strictly 1x tournaments are fine as well. If you don't want to play with 1x, then just don't enter the tournament. Pretty simple.

Wierd how you can be so funny and annoying at the same time sarc.gif.
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Cookies
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58. PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2003 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In a tournament where the goal is to get the most perfects, then the players should be able to play at there best. No handicaps.

If a person is better at PAing with 3x, go for it.
If a person is better at 1x, great.
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GPF Lith
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59. PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2003 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Speed mods are totally subjective. They will cause some players to play better, and they will cause some players to play worse. There's a balance. Speed mods spreads the arrows out, but it makes them come up the screen faster so you have less reaction time.

Go ahead and tell me that playing Max300 on 2.0x makes it easier. Yes that's an extreme, but I'll tell ya... for people who are used to playing on 1.0x... if you give them a normal speed song and throw them on 2.0x or 3.0x, it'll kill em.

Since speed mods help some people and hurt others, and they don't affect fairness at all, there's no good argument to exclude them from a tournament from a "skill" perspective. If you want to see players play on 1.0x, great... then exclude them. But to say they make the game easier is totally subjective and I challenge anyone to disprove that in the general case. (i.e. anyone who says Bag, I will say Legend of Max)

Quote:
Correct, it WON'T change the speed of the song, but I disagree with how many perfects you get. Because the arrows are farther apart, it's easier to read the beat and thus, your perfects may increase quite a bit. I played Waka Laka heavy with 1.5xspeed and it made THAT MUCH of a difference. Now I can get an A on it without 1.5x!
Here's a perfect example. To this person, they help. But to say, "Y'know what? I played song X at 1.0x and did bad and then played it at 1.5x and did good, therefore speed mods make the game easier!" is incorrect. They make the game easier FOR YOU, and that's the only true fact you can accurately draw from that situation.

Anyhow, we've debated this very topic on our boards for over a year now (whether or not speed modifiers are a crutch)... And the only conclusion we came to was that no conclusion could be drawn. The effect of speed mods on a player's skill is totally subjective (i.e. depends on the player).

GPF.
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